Season 14 of League of Legends may prove the most incredible yet, with all the changes made to the map and items. One of the roles has especially seen serious upheaval, and players still can’t say clearly whether it’s good or not: That role is the ADC.

Over the past day, players on the League of Legends subreddit have been having at it, with discussions on ADCs and their current state. One Jan. 28 thread criticized ADC players for complaining about the role, saying that they have always been in “the worst state” and that those who play it always find something to complain about.

The original post also said that ADCs had been meta for nearly a decade and a half and that there were times when up to three or four ADCs would play in one team. The consensus among top replies to the thread seems to be that AD Carries simply rely too much on their allies, lack agency, and are constantly focused down, making the role difficult to play in particular metas like Lethality and Tanks.

Captain Fortue standing on a ship full of people and cannons.
Miss Fortune has the highest win rate of all traditional ADCs in Emerald+ tiers. Image via Riot Games

Another thread posted on Jan. 27 has an ADC main explaining their superiority and saying that ADCs should have all the agency in a game and shouldn’t rely so much on the rest of their team to be successful. They claim that ADC is the most mechanically complex role and, therefore, the most powerful one and that it is detrimental to the game that an ADC’s superior skills can be thwarted by the rest of the roster.

The replies called the original post satire, but the creator doubled down and stood behind all they said. They also didn’t mention top laners whatsoever, and as one, I have to thank them for not putting us in the spotlight. However, ADCs on top have been a nuisance lately, particularly Vayne (though she always was a pain for melee bruisers).

The critics of the ADC role have also been called out in another thread, which asked them why they don’t switch to ADC if it’s as strong as they say. Most claim that they don’t want to share a lane and rely on another to be successful—something many have pointed out in the threads mentioned previously.

But all in all, there is no general consensus on ADCs and their strengths and weaknesses. The Lethality meta and the new items have rampaged through League of Legends and propelled champions like Miss Fortune and Caitlyn to astronomical heights. Riot’s plans for Season 14 have shaken up the game significantly, and it seems discussions like these crop up every day for every role in the popular MOBA.